Discussion:
Network Installation for multisites
Utkarsh Dixit
2014-03-22 09:10:46 UTC
Permalink
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the following
lines:

define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......

in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be made to
the .htaccess file.

I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made automatically
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )

Thanks.
Nikola Nikolov
2014-03-22 11:05:58 UTC
Permalink
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because a
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site - meaning
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site anyway.

Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php in
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put the
lines of code yourself.

Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on the
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the following
define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......
in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be made to
the .htaccess file.
I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made automatically
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )
Thanks.
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http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
Utkarsh Dixit
2014-03-22 11:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Why not even add the "define( 'WP_ALLOW_MULTISITE', true );" dynamically
using file parsing. We could provide a simple Enable network button to do
this. It would certainly be a step towards making the multisite network
available and easy to setup (for everyone). I dunno why this wasn't done
earlier. Maybe because it was slowing things down? ( file parsing does take
a large amount of time )
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because a
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site - meaning
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site anyway.
Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php in
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put the
lines of code yourself.
Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on the
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the following
define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......
in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be made to
the .htaccess file.
I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made automatically
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )
Thanks.
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Madalin Ignisca
2014-03-22 11:54:41 UTC
Permalink
we have wp-cli for automating multisites in seconds. have you tried it? it
has lots of addons to automate many things.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Why not even add the "define( 'WP_ALLOW_MULTISITE', true );" dynamically
using file parsing. We could provide a simple Enable network button to do
this. It would certainly be a step towards making the multisite network
available and easy to setup (for everyone). I dunno why this wasn't done
earlier. Maybe because it was slowing things down? ( file parsing does take
a large amount of time )
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because a
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site - meaning
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site anyway.
Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php in
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put the
lines of code yourself.
Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on the
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the following
define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......
in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be made
to
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
the .htaccess file.
I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made
automatically
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )
Thanks.
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http://imadalin.ro/
Nikola Nikolov
2014-03-22 12:34:24 UTC
Permalink
I'd say that most of the users of WordPress don't really need a multisite
network - just because it exists doesn't mean that everyone needs it. And
the philosophy of WordPress regarding options is more or less along the
lines of "each option that is offered puts the decision on the user - which
makes it less user-friendly".

So if you want to have a network you will look it up and do it yourself.


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Madalin Ignisca
Post by Madalin Ignisca
we have wp-cli for automating multisites in seconds. have you tried it? it
has lots of addons to automate many things.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Why not even add the "define( 'WP_ALLOW_MULTISITE', true );" dynamically
using file parsing. We could provide a simple Enable network button to do
this. It would certainly be a step towards making the multisite network
available and easy to setup (for everyone). I dunno why this wasn't done
earlier. Maybe because it was slowing things down? ( file parsing does
take
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
a large amount of time )
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because
a
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site -
meaning
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site
anyway.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php in
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put
the
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
lines of code yourself.
Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on
the
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the
following
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......
in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be made
to
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
the .htaccess file.
I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made
automatically
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )
Thanks.
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http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
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*web developer*
http://imadalin.ro/
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Utkarsh Dixit
2014-03-22 12:34:32 UTC
Permalink
Going through It.. Thanks for the suggestion. :)


On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Madalin Ignisca
Post by Madalin Ignisca
we have wp-cli for automating multisites in seconds. have you tried it? it
has lots of addons to automate many things.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Why not even add the "define( 'WP_ALLOW_MULTISITE', true );" dynamically
using file parsing. We could provide a simple Enable network button to do
this. It would certainly be a step towards making the multisite network
available and easy to setup (for everyone). I dunno why this wasn't done
earlier. Maybe because it was slowing things down? ( file parsing does
take
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
a large amount of time )
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because
a
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site -
meaning
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site
anyway.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php in
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put
the
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
lines of code yourself.
Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on
the
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the
following
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......
in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be made
to
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
the .htaccess file.
I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made
automatically
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
_______________________________________________
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*Madalin Ignisca*
*web developer*
http://imadalin.ro/
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Eric Hendrix
2014-03-22 12:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Much of the time, users who think they want a multi-site really aren't sure
what they're getting into. When you explain the difference between
"multiple WordPress sites" and "multi-site," many opt to use multiple sites.

Also, without a few extraordinary plugins, WP's multi-site operation leaves
a bit lacking in my opinion.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Going through It.. Thanks for the suggestion. :)
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Madalin Ignisca
Post by Madalin Ignisca
we have wp-cli for automating multisites in seconds. have you tried it?
it
Post by Madalin Ignisca
has lots of addons to automate many things.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Utkarsh Dixit <
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Why not even add the "define( 'WP_ALLOW_MULTISITE', true );"
dynamically
Post by Madalin Ignisca
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
using file parsing. We could provide a simple Enable network button to
do
Post by Madalin Ignisca
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
this. It would certainly be a step towards making the multisite network
available and easy to setup (for everyone). I dunno why this wasn't
done
Post by Madalin Ignisca
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
earlier. Maybe because it was slowing things down? ( file parsing does
take
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
a large amount of time )
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is
because
Post by Madalin Ignisca
a
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site -
meaning
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site
anyway.
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php
in
Post by Madalin Ignisca
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put
the
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
lines of code yourself.
Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on
the
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
While installing the network it is asked of a user to add the
following
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
define('MULTISITE', true);
define('SUBDOMAIN_INSTALL', false);
define('DOMAIN_CURRENT_SITE', 'localhost');
......
in the wp-config.php and also various changes are required to be
made
Post by Madalin Ignisca
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
to
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
the .htaccess file.
I'm a little curious as to why can't these changes be made
automatically
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Post by Utkarsh Dixit
using file handling in php? Is there some specific reason for not
implementing it this way?
( Currently using version 3.8 )
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
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*web developer*
http://imadalin.ro/
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*"Non Timebo Mala"*
Ryan McCue
2014-03-22 12:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because a
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site - meaning
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site anyway.
I suspect, without having looked into the history, that it's more just
because WP doesn't have any way to do it, and WPMU was the forgotten
step-child until integration into core.

As far as I know, WP doesn't have any way to modify existing PHP files
automatically (although it has similar for htaccess), and WPMU wasn't
too user-focussed, so it was a low priority.

I'd hazard a guess that a well-written ticket and patch to do this
automatically wouldn't be rejected. :)
--
Ryan McCue
<http://ryanmccue.info/>
Andrew Nacin
2014-03-22 16:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nikola Nikolov
I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe one of the reasons is because a
multisite network is more complex than a normal WordPress site - meaning
that the administrator of a network should have a bit more technical
knowledge and you would most-likely need FTP access to your site anyway.
Besides you already have to add a line of code to your wp-config.php in
Post by Nikola Nikolov
order to enable network installation, so it's not a big hassle to put the
lines of code yourself.
Again - that was just a guess, so if anyone has concrete knowledge on the
Post by Nikola Nikolov
matter I'd be very interested in learning about the reasoning.
I'd say that most of the users of WordPress don't really need a multisite
network - just because it exists doesn't mean that everyone needs it. And
the philosophy of WordPress regarding options is more or less along the
lines of "each option that is offered puts the decision on the user - which
makes it less user-friendly".
So if you want to have a network you will look it up and do it yourself.
Post by Nikola Nikolov
Much of the time, users who think they want a multi-site really aren't sure
what they're getting into. When you explain the difference between
"multiple WordPress sites" and "multi-site," many opt to use multiple
sites.
All of this is accurate.

We didn't need to introduce WP_ALLOW_MULTISITE; we could have edited
wp-config.php for you; we could have made it so multisite didn't require
wp-config.php changes. In fact, we wrote the patches for all of this back
in 3.0 (during the WPMU merge) and decided against them.

WordPress multisite is deliberately a pain to install because it's not for
everyone. We need to make it easier to use and to manage before we make it
easier to install. That especially means eliminating more of the "gotchas"
and quirks, smoothing over the arbitrary difference between single-site and
multisite, etc. One thing that will help us here is breaking down existing
paradigms and creating new ones. For example, introducing the general
concept of open registration versus trusted networks will help us with the
arbitrary differences. [1]

I don't think we're going to be in this situation forever, as multisite is
seeing incremental improvements with every version now. A number of
contributors are increasingly putting their efforts squarely into making
multisite better, in many cases because it's their full-time job to run a
complex WordPress network (woop Jeremy Felt). In 3.9, for example, the
entire loading process got rewritten, which gets us closer to arbitrary
domain/path support.

tl;dr: Until it's straightforward enough for someone untechnical to use
multisite for a second blog for their cat, the installation process will
continue to be a set of hoops. For the cat, to, err, jump through.

still tl;dr: when multisite sucks less we'll make it easier to install.

Nacin

[1]
http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/10/06/potential-roadmap-for-multisite/
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